[rivanna]

Sorry I posted in a grouchy mood last time... hopefully no one thought I was referring to this board :-)

[canajan, eh?]

Okay, TCPC administrators, this is what I, Jesus, have to say.

Now, dear and faithful friends, I'm sure you're entirely sceptical of Jen's claims, and I'm sure you don't believe for a minute that somebody could actually be such a clear channel for me, but, you know, sometimes God steps in whether you like it or not.

First, let me ask you a few questions:

1. Do you actually believe in God? Because if you don't actually believe in God and and God's mysterious powers, then there's little point in having a professed faith in Progressive Christianity.

2. Do you believe in science? Because if you don't actually care to understand how matter behaves, and how quantum physics governs the universe, then there's no possibility of your moving forward into a stronger, clearer, more compassionate faith.

3. Do you believe that God answers prayers (some of them, at least)? Because if you don't, then you don't really believe in God, and you don't really believe in God's mysterious powers, and you don't really believe in the science which is God.

4. Do you believe that maybe, just maybe, God is actually trying to communicate the clear, simple truth of how to live according to the Way, and the basic problem is that most people don't want to listen because they'll have to get off their duffs and do some intentional work towards being the amazing angels-in-human-form they're all capable of being? Because if you don't believe in the phenomenal integrity and commitment to Truth shared by all souls in God's creation, then you don't actually believe in God, and you don't actually believe in God's mysterious powers, and you don't actually believe in the science which is God, and you don't actually believe in the perfectibility of humankind.

5. Do you believe it's actually impossible -- not improbable, but impossible -- for a person to work so hard to be in the Christ Zone that quantum communication becomes crystal clear? Because if you believe it's impossible, then nothing I say today will make an impression on you. Nothing I say will help you meet your avowed goals. And nothing -- nothing -- will change. Again.

6. Why in Heaven's name would God pass up such an amazing opportunity (i.e the Internet) to get a few healing ideas across to the loving but uncertain angels-in-human-form who are reading your site?

7. Why don't I post on any other spiritual or religious site but this one?

8. Why did Dostoevsky posit in his parable of the Grand Inquisitor (from the Brothers Karamazov) that miracle, mystery, and authority are the three forces yearned for by mankind?

9. Where are the miracles?

10. Do you want the miracles? Because if you do, you'd better ask yourself how you feel about the first 9 questions I asked.

11. Miracles take time, even when you believe.

12. Whether you like it or not, you are a miracle.

Amen. Jesus. April 29, 2007

This post has been edited by canajan, eh?: 29 April 2007 - 09:55 AM

[Flatliner]

QUESTION 3 - What does TCPC do right now that you find valuable?

It exists (!!) and is accessible to me.

I'm not part of a worshipping community right now. By choice I stepped out of the regularity of church attendance after a long time and realise now that I don't know what I believe or if I actually believe in God anymore. That doesn't sit well with many people who know me (funnily enough!!). I haven't posted for months but I visit regularly to read comments and consider bigger questions than I'm used to contemplating (from a reasonably conservative background). Some posters confuse me, some comfort me, some challenge me, some grieve me and some intrigue me, but ALL give me a sense that there is no question that dare not be asked of another, or dare not be asked of (or about) God. It is valuable to me to read the wrestling questions and thoughts posted here, only a few of which have fleetingly crossed my mind but I have been too scared or ashamed or intimadated or confused to dwell on and some I have not dared to entertain or utter out loud. I find it valuable to come and read and consider and have the freedom to post or not post. It opens up my thinking and has kept me searching or contemplating this 'thing' called God for longer than I expected, and that's valuable to me.

[October's Autumn]

LibChristian, on Jan 16 2007, 03:54 AM, said:

TCPC Feedback: Future Steps for TCPC and progressive Christianity

Hello all!

Part of what I'm going to be doing here in the future is periodically asking you for input into TCPC's focus and planning.

The following questions were given to me by TCPC's secretary and webmaster, Geoffrey Gaskins.

1. What are the major issues confronting progressive Christianity today?

Attacks from conservatives and fundamentalists


2. What should TCPC’s role be in the broader progressive Christian movement?

place for dialog for progressives and friends for progressives, place for news and events that progressives would be interested in or should be aware of

3. What is TCPC’s perceived value currently? (e.g. what does TCPC do right now that you find valuable?)

connections to other progressives and progressive sites

[Wayseer]

I apologise for coming in late. The previous posts all have merit. There is one point that I think PC should consider seriously.

There is a danger in any new movement of repeating the mistakes of the past - more often through association rather than by design. It would be disappointing should PC follow the traditional Church and develop, for whatever reason, a doctrin or dogmatics by whatever name. I do not see PC as exclusive - therefore no boundaries - that is - none, zip, zero. Scary? - well Jesus set no boundaries to his Love - that's should be our example.

But, knowing humans and our inherent weakness for developing tribal mentalities I offer a possible solution for consideration; - Process Theology.

I do not propose to outline what PT is all above other than to say that embracing this Theology changes the orientation of one's mind from classical, or traditional, Christinaity towards the idea of process - that creation is an on-going phenomena and GOD is present in every step. I'm not going to say any more as to do so will inevitable end up like a sales pitch. Rather, those interested should google Process Theology or Process Theory and take it from there.

[soma]

As progressive Christians we should celebrate knowledge and value critical thinking. In the past Christian law condemned those who said the sun did not revolve around the Earth. Ideas will expand our minds and can never hurt our souls. Jesus gave us a simple teaching that stimulates and expands our thinking. He does not want us to be uninformed and dumbed down. He plants a seed and wants it to grow. One idea gives birth to another and those thoughts grow into a strong tree that can give shade, shelter and rest to the weary. May we all progress to the altar of our soul by going through the gate of our mind and not shutting it or being afraid of what might happen.

[AllInTheNameOfProgress]

1. What are the major issues confronting progressive Christianity today?
Getting the word out that there is more than one version of Christianity.

2. What should TCPC’s role be in the broader progressive Christian movement? It would be nice if the Center would become a resource center of worship materials, music, children and adult education materials, and faith communication materials(spiritual equivalent of advertising).

3. What is TCPC’s perceived value currently? (e.g. what does TCPC do right now that you find valuable?) The 8 points give us a common language to start from. The message boards have allowed us to converse about issues.

4. How could TCPC be more responsive to the spiritual and community needs of individual affiliates/seekers? I think the resources mentioned above would help. Keep providing contact information for existing communities. There are not many (yet) in Colorado, but I hope my church will become one soon.

[October's Autumn]

AllInTheNameOfProgress, on May 1 2008, 03:18 PM, said:

2. What should TCPC's role be in the broader progressive Christian movement? It would be nice if the Center would become a resource center of worship materials, music, children and adult education materials, and faith communication materials(spiritual equivalent of advertising).

Excellent. I hate the Sunday School curriculum my UCC church uses for the children's Sunday School! There has got to be better stuff!

[October's Autumn]

TCPC Feedback: Future Steps for TCPC and progressive Christianity

1. What are the major issues confronting progressive Christianity today?

Letting people, like me, know the exist. I was very isolated for many years because what I thought was "liberal" was actually just left of middle. I had no where to go because I didn't know progressive Christianity existed.

2. What should TCPC's role be in the broader progressive Christian movement?

Taking back Christianity from the right wing conservatives. People need to know that not all people who identify themselves as Christians are Republicans, anti-gay, anti-pluralism, etc. They also need to know that when it comes to issues like abortion, we are not of one mind but run the spectrum.

3. What is TCPC's perceived value currently? (e.g. what does TCPC do right now that you find valuable?)

It is a place where I don't have to turn off my brain to have a conversation with others.

4. How could TCPC be more responsive to the spiritual and community needs of individual affiliates/seekers?

Simply existing makes a big difference.

[AllInTheNameOfProgress]

October, on May 6 2008, 10:34 PM, said:

Excellent. I hate the Sunday School curriculum my UCC church uses for the children's Sunday School! There has got to be better stuff!

If I were writing Sunday School curriculum, I would start with the teachings of Jesus I had listed on the "Which Teachings" forum. OA, would you sometime take time to explain why you believe the teachings you deleted are untrue, so I can understand? For me, the Sunday School should also address pluralism by having some lessons on how other faith traditions see the world. This would be extremely helpful for kids grades 3-6 I believe.

We recently changed to a rotational Sunday School model with some materials from Abingdon Press, which I believe is our Methodist publishing house. It spends 6 weeks on TOO little information for the kids to really learn anything, but it's fun!

[davidk]

LibChristian, on Jan 16 2007, 04:54 AM, said:

TCPC Feedback: Future Steps for TCPC and progressive Christianity

Hello all!

Part of what I'm going to be doing here in the future is periodically asking you for input into TCPC's focus and planning.

The following questions were given to me by TCPC's secretary and webmaster, Geoffrey Gaskins.

1. What are the major issues confronting progressive Christianity today?

2. What should TCPC’s role be in the broader progressive Christian movement?

3. What is TCPC’s perceived value currently? (e.g. what does TCPC do right now that you find valuable?)

4. How could TCPC be more responsive to the spiritual and community needs of individual affiliates/seekers?

Please answer in as much detail as you want. Also, if you know anyone who is interested in TCPC yet does not regularly visit our boards, this might be a good time to ask them to visit the board and give us their input!

Also, we constantly have new visitors so I may have to repeat these - please don't take offense and always feel free to add to your answer.

~ Lib

I have read this thread with great interest. Although many would discount any of the content of my posts, and while I have found much that needs to be addressed, I will set that aside.

For there is a most insightful statement similar to one which had been introduced in one of the "debate" threads and one which I would wholeheartedly encourage adopting:
"... change the name to The Centre for Progressive Religion." or "The Centre for Harmonizing Religion" - Bobd

[billmc]

davidk, on Jul 4 2008, 12:23 PM, said:

"... change the name to The Centre for Progressive Religion." or "The Centre for Harmonizing Religion" - Bobd

Davidk, what I would appreciate seeing from the good folks who own/run TCPC is a clearer explanation of their 8th point. The 8th point reads thus:

"By calling ourselves progressive,we mean that we are Christians who recognize that being followers of Jesus is costly, and entails selfless love, conscientious resistance to evil, and renunciation of privilege."

Progressive Christians, according to point 8, DO claim to be Christians. And they claim to be followers of Jesus. I would appreciate hearing from "the management" as to what they think Christians or followers of Jesus are. I'm not trying to be legalist, such desiring clarification or a "working definition."

Personally, to be a bit more blunt about it (which I seems to be one of my "spiritual gifts" that no one covets), I would be interested to know if the "Christ" and the "Jesus" that TCPC is putting forward or claiming to follow is, in the words of Marcus Borg, the pre-Easter or the post-Easter Jesus. I think this is an important issue. Why?

If the 8th point is pointing more towards the historical Jesus, we have, at least to some extent, a baseline to be found and explored about him in the gospels. There is MUCH in these gospels that indeed entails personal cost, selfless love, resistance to evil, renunciation of privilege. It is, to a reasonably good certainty, the historical Jesus who said that his teachings should be taken into all the world. And those teachings deserve a good amount of study and, even moreso, application to our lives.

On the other hand, if the 8th point is pointing more towards the post-Easter Jesus, the "Christ of faith", or the "mystical Jesus", then endeavoring to discuss how we are "Christians" or how we "follow Jesus" becomes almost entirely subjective. Anyone here can claim an experience of the post-Easter Jesus and then, directly or indirectly, imply that "their Jesus" should be listened to and followed. When Jesus becomes solely a product of our own minds or experiences, with little or no relation to the historical Jesus, then the Pandora's Box is opened for "everyone's Jesus." Some would say this is a good thing, that we all create our own Jesuses in our minds. Perhaps to some extent this is true. But I, for one, am not willing to throw out the historical Jesus as found in the gospels for the sake of somebody else's "Christ of faith", even if that somebody is the apostle Paul himself.

So I would appreciate some clarification from the management as to "which Jesus" being a Progressive Christian points to, not to exclude anyone, but to establish a baseline for profitable discussion.

bill