[Ted Michael Morgan]

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Theo-Maniac, on May 21 2005, 04:20 PM, said:

I doubt you'll find many here who agree with you. The NIV is a conservative translation that actually manipulates the text of the Holy Scriptures to say what they want. For example, you know all those parts of the NT where Paul talks about sexual practices and it says Homosexual or gay in the NIV? Turns out there's no word that is anything close to gay or homosexual in the origianl languages the NT was written in, so how did they pull that off? As for the KJV, I read it primarily for the Psalms, most of the Psalms I memorize are the KJV version simply because they sound more beautiful to me than any other translation. However I can't make heads nor tales of most of it, so it is not my primary Bible. Not to mention the fact that it has similar problems to the NIV, except in the case of the KJV, verses appear in the english that don't exist anywhere in the original texts.

My purely lay opinion accords with your assessment of the New International Version. I think that it has a deliberate evangelical bias. It seems to be the favorite translation of many people in my church. At least, many of them seem to use it. However, they also use other popular translations such as the New Living Translation, which is quite easy to read, and various translations from the American Bible Society. I think that I am the only member of my congregation who uses the Revised English Version, though I most often read the New Revised Standard Version at church. Some members use the New American Bible. I was surprised in a class I attended at the local Unitarian-Universalist congregation that many students in the group I attended used the old Living Translation and the King James Version. The students seemed to have used these in their past church experiences. The pastor used an Oxford Study Bible Revised Study Version. The English Standard Version is an evangelical version based upon the Revised Standard Version but it is a modified version of that translation. I am not certain how closely it follows the RSV. I have not made a verse by verse comparison. It is a good version to use when you talk with evangelicals. Some very conservative folks endorse it. I think that the differences have to do with reading the Old Testament backwards from the New Testament. The Complete Gospels edited by Robert Miller from the Westar Institute is an excellent resource that I am not certain anyone here has mentioned. There are several study editions of the Revised Standard Version. One recent one is the New Intepreter's Study Bible. A new edition of The Harper Collins Study Bible is due for release in August. The Oxford Study Bible New Revised Standard Version remains an excellent choice for lay readers (in my humble lay opinion).

This post has been edited by Ted Michael Morgan: 18 July 2006 - 09:58 PM

[kiwimac]

Ted Michael Morgan, on Jul 19 2006, 02:54 PM, said:

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My purely lay opinion accords with your assessment of the New International Version. I think that it has a deliberate evangelical bias. It seems to be the favorite translation of many people in my church. At least, many of them seem to use it. However, they also use other popular translations such as the New Living Translation, which is quite easy to read, and various translations from the American Bible Society. I think that I am the only member of my congregation who uses the Revised English Version, though I most often read the New Revised Standard Version at church. Some members use the New American Bible. I was surprised in a class I attended at the local Unitarian-Universalist congregation that many students in the group I attended used the old Living Translation and the King James Version. The students seemed to have used these in their past church experiences. The pastor used an Oxford Study Bible Revised Study Version. The English Standard Version is an evangelical version based upon the Revised Standard Version but it is a modified version of that translation. I am not certain how closely it follows the RSV. I have not made a verse by verse comparison. It is a good version to use when you talk with evangelicals. Some very conservative folks endorse it. I think that the differences have to do with reading the Old Testament backwards from the New Testament. The Complete Gospels edited by Robert Miller from the Westar Institute is an excellent resource that I am not certain anyone here has mentioned. There are several study editions of the Revised Standard Version. One recent one is the New Intepreter's Study Bible. A new edition of The Harper Collins Study Bible is due for release in August. The Oxford Study Bible New Revised Standard Version remains an excellent choice for lay readers (in my humble lay opinion).

I also find the New English Bible and the 20th Century NT excellent translations even given their age.

[Ted Michael Morgan]

kiwimac, on Apr 12 2008, 04:35 AM, said:

I also find the New English Bible and the 20th Century NT excellent translations even given their age.

Comments on English Versions of the Bible and Study Bibles

Study Bibles seem popular At least, publishers introduce, revise, and re-introduce many editions of them and members of study groups or Sunday school classes to which I belong often have study Bibles with various translations and with commentaries from diverse points-of-view. Barnes and Noble and other book stores display them in large numbers. Some editions seem to me whimsical. Others include commentary by distinguished biblical scholars.



I have worn out several copies of succeeding editions of what is now The Oxford Annotated Bible with the Apocrypha Revised Standard Version, my old favorite study Bible that I first used in 1964 in classes at university. My parents gave me that first copy for Christmas, 1963. Today, I own and refer to several study Bibles, though they are sufficiently expensive that I recommend readers by only one or two study Bibles.



I do believe that study Bibles help me read and better understand scripture, even though I realize that they have limited application simply because the commentators largely have to gloss the texts, even in these large books. Nevertheless, I think that to a degree the annotations and introductions can help readers grasp important aspects of biblical texts. The Bibles are still small enough to take to services, groups, and classes. Sometimes a simple reference can deeply enrich reading a text in a group or class.



Many of the study Bibles I know use critical-historical methods to explore scriptures. Some others combine these with a canonical outlook that takes into account the way churches have historically understood the Bible. Further, other study Bibles interpret scripture from an evangelical viewpoint. I personally enjoy and frequently use Catholic study Bibles that uses a combination of critical-historical study methods with some general attention to Catholic doctrine and to what my mother names the plan of salvation. Members of the Disciple of Christ edited two of the best study Bibles.



As I indicated, all study Bible necessarily have limitations. One criticism as indicated involves limitations of historical-critical readings of scripture. I do not know one that satisfactorily explores my theological concerns though there are study Bibles that use the teachings of the Reformed tradition as a basis for notes.



A couple of study Bibles I use are devotional study Bibles. One The

Spiritual Formation Bible (NRSV), published by the conservative Christian

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publisher Zondervan and edited by staff from The Upper Room publishers, uses

traditional ways of reading scripture as part of spiritual formation. Another, The Renovaré Spiritual Formation Bible (NRSV), edited by Richard Foster does much the same thing but from a slightly different outlook with attention to a broad range of matters that concern Christians. A group of editors and commentators from a broad range of Christian points-of-view produced this helpful devotional Bible.



The texts for most of my study Bibles are the Revised Standard Version, its later revision the New Revised Standard Version, the New English Bible, and its later revision the Revised English Bible. These are translations from committees of scholar representatives from major Christian denominations, including the Roman Catholic and Orthodox denominations. I very much enjoy reading the Hebrew Bible in the Revised English Bible and I find the Oxford Study Bible: Revised English Bible (REB) with Apocrypha particularly helpful. The 23 articles in this edition are outstanding in their clarity and range for such short articles.



The first two translations are generally one-to-one word equivalent translations. The second two are thought -to-thought equivalent translations. There are formal or technical names for kinds of translations. Formal equivalent is roughly a word for word translation. Dynamic equivalent is roughly thought for thought. There are also paraphrase translations.



These divisions are not absolute. Translations tend to use all these forms because of difficulties transposing meaning from texts in biblical languages to other languages. Interestingly, early Christians, including the Apostle Paul, used Aramaic and Greek translations of the Hebrew Bible.



A Google web search reveals articles about translation and about versions of the Bible. There are also interesting blogs.



No translation is perfect and no Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek text is perfect or even original. All translations are in some sense interpretations. There are critics of all translations, including my favorite versions. Many critics offer alternative translations.



Apparently, the best selling modern translation is the New International Version, translated by a committee of conservative Christian scholars, including some Mennonite scholars. This translation is largely a word for word equivalent translation, though some commentators find it a freer translation than the Revised Standard Version and even the New Revised Standard Version. Many critics and

many members of groups and classes in which I take part highly regard the New

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International Version. I know the NIV New Testament well. During the eighties, I

used it as my devotional New Testament. I do not know the Old Testament text. Zondervan, publisher of the NIV offers a wide range of study Bibles that use the NIV text. For myself, I find the NIV New Testament has a bias toward millennialism; however, The New Interpreter’s Bible uses it a one of its two texts and the Norton Critical Edition of the Writings of St. Paul also uses the NIV version.



Another excellent conservative translation is the English Standard Version, which the translators model on the Revised Standard Version with certain corrections and revisions they deem important. These often have to do with translating the Old Testament from the Greek Bible that the writers of the New Testament used rather than the received Hebrew text. Some commentators find some of its rendering unnecessarily stilted. The publisher of this translation will introduce a study edition in October 2008. You can sample sections of it online.



Most study Bibles that I know do not use other translations I enjoy reading. An exception is The Jewish Study Bible, edited by Adele Berlin and March Zvi Brettler, and published by Oxford University Press. This study Bible uses the text of the Jewish Publication Society’s Tanakh translation. A positive aspect of this commentary is that it is Jewish and does not interpret the text in terms of the New Testament. Sometimes that is helpful even to Christians because it opens new readings to us and it helps us better and more fairly grasp Judaism for itself.



By the way, I enjoy reading the New Living Translation as well as both the Contemporary English Version, and Today’s English Version from the American Bible Society. My brother David gave me my now well worn copy of the CEV several years ago. Elsewhere I have written my take on various study Bibles. I no longer have a single favorite.



One reason that I use the Revised Standard Version, The New Revised Standard, the New English Bible, and the Revised English Version is that they include the Deuterocanonical (second canon) books. After all, they were part of the ancient Greek Bible in use at the time of Jesus and included in the

scriptures of the early church. Most Christian churches included these books in their canons of scripture and even many Protestants have found reading them worthwhile. They do not change doctrines but they do nurture spiritual formation. Some modern translations do not include them.



I do recommend, if you can afford to buy it, a one volume Bible

commentary. The scope of these volumes let the commentaries explore topics,

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frequently addressed only in abbreviated ways in study Bibles, with sufficient

depth and range for lay readers. For over forty years, I profitably used an edition of Peake’s Bible Commentary as my single one volume commentary.



There are several excellent one-volume Bible commentaries. I use the most recent of them--The Oxford Bible Commentary, The order in this commentary follows Protestant Bibles, but it includes articles on books included in Catholic and Orthodox Bibles. I use this commentary rather than The Jerome Bible Commentary simply because it is more recent and up-to-date.



These one-volume commentaries are expensive but often not much more expensive than a study Bible and usually much less expensive than even one commentaries on an individual book of the Bible. The Baton Rouge Public Library offers all of these translations, study Bibles, and commentaries as well as major commentary series such as the Anchor Bible Commentaries.



In addition, I own a copy of The Cambridge Companion to the Bible, edited by several distinguished scholars and published by Cambridge University Press. The text of this work is lucid, the format easy to use, and the commentary scholarly and up-to-date. The bibliographies are evocative and valuable guides to further reading and study.



Study Bibles help me in my studies in small groups, classes, and in private study as well as even in my private devotions. Take a look at some of them the next time you are in the bookstore or library. There are many excellent choices.

[Ted Michael Morgan]

kiwimac, on Apr 12 2008, 04:35 AM, said:

I also find the New English Bible and the 20th Century NT excellent translations even given their age.

The Complete Gospels: Annotate Scholar's Version, edited by Robert J. Miller is an excellent resource from people in the Jesus Seminar.

[Terry McGuire]

BrotherRog, on Jul 15 2004, 03:32 AM, said:

Hmm... I'd say that the most "liberal" study Bible that I'm aware of is the NRSV (New Revised Standard Version) Study Bible. It's really more academic than anything, but it clearly stands against a more literalistic/fundamentalist reading of the Good Book. Another excellent resource, albeit far larger and more extensive, to consider is the New Interpreter's Bible Commentary series. This is available in either 12 books (like an encyclopedia) or on CD. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure that they've just come out with a 1 volume New Interpreter's Study Bible. Can anybody verify this?

[billmc]

GreenPartyVoter, on Jul 12 2004, 12:20 PM, said:

No, I don't necessarily mean Bibles rewritten in PC lingo per se, but I have seen numerous study Bibles out there but none of them ever seem to be put together by liberal Chrisitians. (I currently have 3, the student Bible, The Women's Bible II, and the Couples' Bible)

Do any of the more liberal denominations put out their own study Bibles, or are there any generic non-denominational liberal study Bibles in existence?

Thanks!

I realize that this is an ancient thread, but Westminster Knox Press has recently come out with the Discipleship Study Bible in the NRSV translation with Apocrypha. I bought this Bible a month ago and, overall, I'm quite pleased with it.

Some study Bibles, like the NOAB or HarperCollins focus extensively on helping us to understand the Bible's text from a historical/critical viewpoint with little in the way of application. Other study Bibles, similar to The Life Application Bible (and a plethora of other "niche oriented" Bibles), have a wealth of information on personal application of the scriptures but very little about the historical/cultural setting of the scriptures.

The Discipleship Study Bible seeks to incorporate BOTH goals, illuminating historical/cultural information while also offering moderate application. One thing about it that impresses me is that, with some passages, it illuminates the historical info while offering a few different interpretations as to how the text has variously been applied down through the centuries.

The DSB will not replace the NOAB, the HCSB, or the NISB (New Interpreter's Study Bible). But is is probably the closest equivalent to the immensely popular NIV Study Bible that mainline/liberal/progressive Christianity has at this point. I wish it had the illustrations of the NIVSB but, alas, it is text commentary. Nevertheless, it is a good "church Bible" to take to church that can help Christians understand some of the historical context of our scriptures while offering non-intrusive suggestions as to how we, as moderns (or postmoderns) might apply the scriptures to our lives.

It has a decent concordance and okay maps. But it's main strengths are the translation (NRSV) coupled with both modern textual criticism and application notes.

bill

[McKenna]

wayfarer2k, on Apr 5 2009, 06:36 PM, said:

I realize that this is an ancient thread, but Westminster Knox Press has recently come out with the Discipleship Study Bible in the NRSV translation with Apocrypha. I bought this Bible a month ago and, overall, I'm quite pleased with it.

Some study Bibles, like the NOAB or HarperCollins focus extensively on helping us to understand the Bible's text from a historical/critical viewpoint with little in the way of application. Other study Bibles, similar to The Life Application Bible (and a plethora of other "niche oriented" Bibles), have a wealth of information on personal application of the scriptures but very little about the historical/cultural setting of the scriptures.

The Discipleship Study Bible seeks to incorporate BOTH goals, illuminating historical/cultural information while also offering moderate application. One thing about it that impresses me is that, with some passages, it illuminates the historical info while offering a few different interpretations as to how the text has variously been applied down through the centuries.

The DSB will not replace the NOAB, the HCSB, or the NISB (New Interpreter's Study Bible). But is is probably the closest equivalent to the immensely popular NIV Study Bible that mainline/liberal/progressive Christianity has at this point. I wish it had the illustrations of the NIVSB but, alas, it is text commentary. Nevertheless, it is a good "church Bible" to take to church that can help Christians understand some of the historical context of our scriptures while offering non-intrusive suggestions as to how we, as moderns (or postmoderns) might apply the scriptures to our lives.

It has a decent concordance and okay maps. But it's main strengths are the translation (NRSV) coupled with both modern textual criticism and application notes.

bill

Looks great! Thanks for the info!

[McKenna]

wayfarer2k, on Apr 5 2009, 06:36 PM, said:

I realize that this is an ancient thread, but Westminster Knox Press has recently come out with the Discipleship Study Bible in the NRSV translation with Apocrypha. I bought this Bible a month ago and, overall, I'm quite pleased with it.

Some study Bibles, like the NOAB or HarperCollins focus extensively on helping us to understand the Bible's text from a historical/critical viewpoint with little in the way of application. Other study Bibles, similar to The Life Application Bible (and a plethora of other "niche oriented" Bibles), have a wealth of information on personal application of the scriptures but very little about the historical/cultural setting of the scriptures.

The Discipleship Study Bible seeks to incorporate BOTH goals, illuminating historical/cultural information while also offering moderate application. One thing about it that impresses me is that, with some passages, it illuminates the historical info while offering a few different interpretations as to how the text has variously been applied down through the centuries.

The DSB will not replace the NOAB, the HCSB, or the NISB (New Interpreter's Study Bible). But is is probably the closest equivalent to the immensely popular NIV Study Bible that mainline/liberal/progressive Christianity has at this point. I wish it had the illustrations of the NIVSB but, alas, it is text commentary. Nevertheless, it is a good "church Bible" to take to church that can help Christians understand some of the historical context of our scriptures while offering non-intrusive suggestions as to how we, as moderns (or postmoderns) might apply the scriptures to our lives.

It has a decent concordance and okay maps. But it's main strengths are the translation (NRSV) coupled with both modern textual criticism and application notes.

bill

Hey Bill,

Following your suggestion here I went onto amazon.com and bought a copy of this Bible. It arrived today and I started reading it; I have to say I like it quite a bit! Thanks for the suggestion! Of course I love the NRSV, and the notes are very nice. Sometimes I wish they were a little more in-depth, but as it's my first study bible, I think it's a good start.

Thanks again!

Warmly,
McKenna

[billmc]

McKenna, on May 26 2009, 10:39 PM, said:

I went onto amazon.com and bought a copy of this Bible. It arrived today and I started reading it; I have to say I like it quite a bit! Thanks for the suggestion! Of course I love the NRSV, and the notes are very nice. Sometimes I wish they were a little more in-depth, but as it's my first study bible, I think it's a good start.

Thanks again!

You're welcome, McKenna. I also thought I would mention another Bible that, while it is not exactly "liberal", is a mainline translation and great for the kids. That Bible is the GNT (Good News Translation) with pictures by the French artist, Annie Vallotton. This is not a paraphrase but a "dynamic equivalence" translation begun in 1966 that is aimed mainly at groups where English is a second-language. Therefore, big words like "sanctification" and "justification" have been simplified. I find that I like it much better than the NIV. And it has now been reprinted with full-color illustrations!

A few perks of this Bible: First off, it has a small footprint, making it a great "take with" Bible. Despite this, it has book introductions and limited translation notes. The artistry of Annie Vallotton is very graceful and contemplative (at least to me). It has a small dictionary in the back, "New Testament Passages quoted from the Septuagint", gorgeous full-color maps with index, and a fairly functional general concordance/index.

Best of all, you can buy it online at American Bible Society for only $7.99 plus $2.00 shipping/handling for bonded leather:

http://www.bibles.co...NEW/120140.aspx

It also comes in gray/bue leatherette (my daughter's choice):

http://www.bibles.co...NEW/120101.aspx

And in pink/purple leatherette:

http://www.bibles.co...NEW/120101.aspx

Here is a sample of the illustrations:

http://www.bibles.co...lor_Samples.pdf

There is also a few Catholic versions available if you would like the Apocrypha in your Bibe.

So if you are looking for a nice, mainline dynamic equivalent Bible for the entire family, this just might fill the bill.

billmc

This post has been edited by billmc: 30 May 2009 - 05:00 PM