Bobd Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 As far as sharing the Eucharist in Jesus name, that is a form of idol worship. The second commandment says. Don’t make for yourself an idol in the likeness of anything in the skies above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. Don’t worship it and serve it; because I, Yahveh of the gods, jealous in disposition, keep track of descendents perversions established in the third and fourth generation to hate Me,(bold Italics) and show devotion to thousands for being My (bold Italics) friend and observing My (bold Italics) instructions. Anything “on the earth” includes worshiping men and women as idols. Idolizing people is exactly the same folly as idolizing golden calves. If you make a god out of anyone, Jesus, Mohammad, Yahveh, Joseph Smith, Buddha or Krishna, no matter how complex this idol is in relation to other concepts such as the 3 in 1 god, or that god came to earth in the flesh in Jesus, you are contravening the second commandment. Any religion that idolizes the teachings of one man or the man himself is idol worship. What Christians have done is set Jesus up as an idol instead of listening to the wisdom of his teaching. When he talks about Me (bold italics), he is talking about the One god of all of us. I (bold italics) am the only god where there can only be One of Me (bold italics). So what did Jesus mean by the four statements below. Did he want us to perform the ritual of the Eucharist or did he want us to do something else? Luke 22:19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.(bold italics)" John 6:53 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in Me (bold italics), and I (bold italics) in him The way I see it, Jesus is giving us an alternative to eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. I see the Son of Man as the symbol for us who are caught up in eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. What Jesus intended by the Eucharist is for Christians to go out into the world and teach that we are all part of the same One god and that each and every one of us is a piece of that One god. We are to learn about others by eating their flesh and drinking their blood. Although breaking bread together is a good way to get to know others, the concept of the Eucharist has very little to do with food. It is the act of consuming knowledge about how other people think and act and worship and how this very complex world works and how delicately balanced it must be to keep us all living. When we look at others from the point of view of good and evil, we tend to demonize. When we look at each other on a macro scale as all being off the same roll, we will tend to bond more with each other. If we all rose above the concept of good and evil, and adopted the concept that we are all One, attitudes would change. The Eucharist is an invitation by Jesus for Christians to go out among the people to learn what makes them tic and to teach them about Me (bold Italics). Instead we have idolized Jesus and formed another religion to compete with the others, claiming that ours is the best. Then, for 2000 years we have left the Eucharist as a sacrament instead of following its wisdom. To me communion holds a message that has not yet been acted upon. When it is we will be raised up above eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil which brings death and become One with Me (bold italics). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivanna Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 BobD, Jesus never asked people to worship him, nor did he intend communion to be a form of idolatry. If you're arguing that we should view Jesus as a wisdom teacher, a social prophet, rather than a divine being, probably many people would agree with you. I think it's true we all participate in the same creation, and that sharing a meal, sacred or otherwise, is a better alternative than judging others as good or evil, refusing to have anything to do with them. When you say "We are to learn about others by eating their flesh and drinking their blood" do you mean simply wanting to understand other cultures and nations? If so, you've put it in rather violent terms. Also, phrases like "teach them about Me" and "become One with Me" almost sounds like replacing one form of idolatry with another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephM Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 (snip)The way I see it, Jesus is giving us an alternative to eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. I see the Son of Man as the symbol for us who are caught up in eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. (snip) Bobd, I think you are being very insightful at this point in your post. Jesus's life is representative of the tree of life in the Garden of Eden. Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: The tree of the knowlege of 'good' and 'evil' is indeed what most of us eat of today. Perhaps this short writing of mine will resonate with you. http://home.fuse.net/mattioli/Understandin...0and%20Evil.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobd Posted November 26, 2006 Author Share Posted November 26, 2006 BobD, When you say "We are to learn about others by eating their flesh and drinking their blood" do you mean simply wanting to understand other cultures and nations? If so, you've put it in rather violent terms. Also, phrases like "teach them about Me" and "become One with Me" almost sounds like replacing one form of idolatry with another. Rivanna The phrase 'eat my flesh and drink my blood' is a symbolic phrase. In Jesus' time the Roman emperors were pagan and considered themselves as gods. If it was discovered that you were teaching anything different concerning god, you were in danger of crucifixion, being fed to the lions or being tortured. Jesus and his followers needed to use criptic and symbolic language in order to keep the message hidden from the Roman government and yet at the same time write it in such a way that the message could be unlocked at some future time when conditions warrant. The phrase does not refer to the physical eating and drinking but to spiritual eating and drinking. To eat means to consume knowledge and understanding of other people and to get to know them as well as you know yourself. To drink My (bold italics) blood is to drink in and become fully immersed in the friendship of others. When you create an idol like a golden calf or a famous man, you speak of it in very adoring terms and worship it. When I speak of Me (bold italics) as god, I speak of me as one with others and of me as love. When I say "me", I don't mean BobD specifically, I mean me in a generic sense as an invitation for everyone to view themselves in this way. BobD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivanna Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Bob, Thanks for explaining that. It was not clear from your first post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKenna Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Anything “on the earth” includes worshiping men and women as idols. Idolizing people is exactly the same folly as idolizing golden calves. If you make a god out of anyone, Jesus, Mohammad, Yahveh, Joseph Smith, Buddha or Krishna, no matter how complex this idol is in relation to other concepts such as the 3 in 1 god, or that god came to earth in the flesh in Jesus, you are contravening the second commandment. Any religion that idolizes the teachings of one man or the man himself is idol worship. What Christians have done is set Jesus up as an idol instead of listening to the wisdom of his teaching. When he talks about Me (bold italics), he is talking about the One god of all of us. I (bold italics) am the only god where there can only be One of Me (bold italics). But it's not idolatry, I presume, to worship Christ? So what did Jesus mean by the four statements below. Did he want us to perform the ritual of the Eucharist or did he want us to do something else? Luke 22:19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.(bold italics)" John 6:53 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. John 6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in Me (bold italics), and I (bold italics) in him The way I see it, Jesus is giving us an alternative to eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. I see the Son of Man as the symbol for us who are caught up in eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. What Jesus intended by the Eucharist is for Christians to go out into the world and teach that we are all part of the same One god and that each and every one of us is a piece of that One god. We are to learn about others by eating their flesh and drinking their blood. Although breaking bread together is a good way to get to know others, the concept of the Eucharist has very little to do with food. It is the act of consuming knowledge about how other people think and act and worship and how this very complex world works and how delicately balanced it must be to keep us all living. When we look at others from the point of view of good and evil, we tend to demonize. When we look at each other on a macro scale as all being off the same roll, we will tend to bond more with each other. If we all rose above the concept of good and evil, and adopted the concept that we are all One, attitudes would change. The Eucharist is an invitation by Jesus for Christians to go out among the people to learn what makes them tic and to teach them about Me (bold Italics). Instead we have idolized Jesus and formed another religion to compete with the others, claiming that ours is the best. Then, for 2000 years we have left the Eucharist as a sacrament instead of following its wisdom. To me communion holds a message that has not yet been acted upon. When it is we will be raised up above eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil which brings death and become One with Me (bold italics). I really like your idea of the Eucharist as an alternate to the Tree of Knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soma Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Bobb, Thank you for starting this thread and taking it to a very deep level. I agree that Jesus was not interested in converting people to the tree of good and evil, but to teach people who are ready. The experience Christ had with the Father can't be taught, only the way to the experience can be taught which is inside all off us. Thank you for making my day. Soma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobd Posted April 8, 2007 Author Share Posted April 8, 2007 Bobb, Thank you for starting this thread and taking it to a very deep level. I agree that Jesus was not interested in converting people to the tree of good and evil, but to teach people who are ready. The experience Christ had with the Father can't be taught, only the way to the experience can be taught which is inside all off us. Thank you for making my day. Soma Soma; Thank you for letting me know. BobD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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