PeaceAngel

I've read parts of the "Course", but keep getting sidetracked from keeping at it. (Anyone in Metro-Phoenix/Mesa interested in forming a study group, I'm game.) There are some very lovely passages, some of which I've included in my daily prayers. The general theme of the book, however, is not orthodox Christian, but does have striking similiarities to ancient Gnostic Christianity: that we are all really spiritual beings, the physical world is not real, the problem with EGO (read that Iago or Ialdabaoth), the unimportance of the crucifixion, etc. Because the writer/channeler was a psychologist, this may come from Jungian influences... or maybe the Gnostics were right all along???

First let me say that I am NOT a "Bible-believing Christian" - I believe in that to which the Bible is directed like "a finger pointing at the moon", namely God - or rather that Ultimate and Unknowable Mystery which we conceptualize and label God. The main problem with the Bible is that it contains a developing moral view of God (or maybe chronicling the moral development of God?). It in essence presents many different and incompatible gods, some of which - if human - would be considered sociopathic. The problem comes when, as a "Bible-believing Christian" you try and reconcile all of these images into one true God. Unfortunately, when this is done you must accept the sociopathic elements and, since we become what we believe, end up absorbing the sociopathic elements into oneself - and from that the woeful history of Christianity is born! We need to see the Bible as a process, but why close off the process? Has God gone on holiday? or died? Historically the only reason we closed the scripture was because the bishops (especiall Iraneaus) feared losing their authority; afterall, if anyone can access the source of Wisdom then what do we need bishops and priests for? But was this what Yeshua (Jesus) intended? In the most authentic layers of stories and teachings of Yeshua - (especiall the Gospel of Thomas which seems to predate even Mark since Mark depends on Thomas according to the theologian Stevan Davies) - Yeshua does not claim a unique connection to God, but that we all can become as he - "Whoever will drink from my mouth will become like me. I myself will become he, and what is hidden will be revealed to him." (Gospel of Thomas, 108). It is very interesting that Jeep should mention "A Course in Miracles", since it seems to be very close to the Yeshua found in the Gospel of Thomas and other - so called - Gnostic writings. I very much have come to admire this book; although, not ready to say that the physical world exists only as a training ground. For me, however, the goal is not to depend on any scripture as the source for Wisdom, but to have the "law written on the heart" - to in essence to become living scripture which is which speaks of the nature of the sacred by living a life of compassion and gentleness. Ultimately, you must burn your Bible!

Maybe it's not nice to mess with their "survey" especially when my text at beliefnet consistant comes up with "neopagan" and "new age", while my birth church "Roman Catholic" is always at the bottom! Who writes these things anyway? What is more troubling is their assertion that the majority of Americans are "Bible Believing". A lot of people may say it, but do they even know what is in the Bible? Maybe it's just a platitude? What is more, in a article at Common Dreams, religious "nones" are now the fastest growing "denomination" in America, falling just behind Catholics (who the fundies don't consider Christian) and Baptists. It seems that the "old time religion" is now the "over the hill religion"! (Bye the bye, I redid my Webpage and am interested in your comments. Thanks!!)

OK, here's my list World Network of Religious Futurists Simply stated, the World Network of Religious Futurists exists as a leadership development ministry to advance the future of religion by empowering people to think creatively and critically about the future of society, and to reinvent their ministry in light of those new contexts. Sea of Faith Network - UK If the state of religion today seems to be 'all at sea', inviting the angry rejection of its claims as dangerous delusions, what could be better than to explore that vast sea in all its dangerous storms, its profound and mysterious depths and its serenity and beauty? For Network members, all matters of religion are rooted in history, culture and language. None of them can validly claim divine authority. For many members of Sea of Faith this realization goes hand-in-hand with a deep appreciation that religion is a tremendous human resource. National Religious Partnership for the Environment Guided by biblical teaching, the Partnership seeks to encourage people of faith to weave values and programs of care for God's creation throughout the entire fabric of religious life: Liturgy, worship and prayer; Theological study, the education of future clergy, and of the young; The stewardship of our homes, lands and resources; Protecting the lives of our communities and health of our children; Our social ministry to the poor and vulnerable who have first and preferential claim on our conscience; and Bringing the perspectives of moral values and social justice before public policymakers. GLBT ISSUES Whosoever: An Online Magazine for Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Christians Our Vision: Whosoever Ministries, Inc. exists to provides a safe and sacred space for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Christians to reclaim, rekindle and grow their relationship with God. Soulforce Soulforce is committed to freedom for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer people from religious and political oppression through relentless nonviolent resistance. As we enter our second decade of work, we invite you to join our movement. CATHOLIC REFORM Future Church Our Mission: FutureChurch seeks changes that will provide all Roman Catholics the opportunity to participate fully in Church life and leadership International Movement We Are Church The international movement We are Church, founded in Rome in 1996, is committed to the renewal of the Roman Catholic Church on the basis of the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965) and the theological spirit developed from it.

While I greatly admire Bishop Spong and often agree with him, I just can't see how the writer of Luke depended on Matthew's account at all. Take away Mark and Q and what is left of Luke and Matthew are totally different. Matthew uses more midrash, Luke borrows heavily from Hellenistic images. You don't need Matthew to create Luke. Even the order which the two authors use Q is different. (Sidebar: since we know that the current version of Matthew is not the original Matthew, maybe Q is the original which someone folded into Mark to produce the current Matthew version.) If Luke did not know about Matthew, which seems likely to me, then the existance of Q as a written document is secure and was probably written in Greek somewhere in the Galilee or Syria before the first Jewish revolt since it lacks an apocalyptic element. That such a collections of sayings existed is supported by the known Gospel of Thomas. Since Q shows greater organization than Thomas, it stands to reason that the original Thomas was written even earlier probably in Syria. That Q provides some context for its sayings further indicates that represents a later stage in Gospel development. Both Thomas and Q present Jesus as a bringer of Wisdom whose vision of the Kingdom of God (or of the Father as Thomas puts it) is not so much a future event but is a present reality that is present now at least in a nacent fashion. For Thomas, awakening to the Kingdom was an awakening to the state of the original creation on the seventh day before the division of the first human into male and female. (It reminds me of the statement in "A Course in Miracles" in which the revealor says "The Bible says Adam fell asleep. It never says he woke up.") Mark's narrative carries the trend toward adding context forward, but also marks a significant turn in spirituality, from Jesus as sage and awakener to Jesus as apocalytic messiah. I believe that is change came about due to recent events in Mark's community: the burning of Rome, the Nero persecution, and the destruction of the second Temple in Jerusalem; all of which indicated to the author that God was breaking into history right now and so Mark writes with a breathless immediacy. Mark probably did use stories of Jesus used during synagogue services and fitted to the Jewish lectionary, but created from them a biography that is modeled on the Greco-Roman biographies of his day. Because Mark used these stories, his account still fits the Jewish calender to a great degree. That Mark was probably written in the West, possibly Rome, is indicated by the close parallels between his passion narrative and the coronation ceremony of Caesar which entailed: a crowning and robing in purple, a procession through the streets carring the symbols of office (Jesus carries the cross), the offering of a ceremonial drink which is refused, being seated between two officials (Jesus is hung between two theives), and being proclaimed king (Jesus title placed on the cross) on Capitulium hill - the "top" place (Jesus is crucified on "Golgotha" - the "skull" place). While Mark is probably Jewish, he is not a great scholar using only common Greek and the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible. He also makes several geographical errors in describing the Holy Land. The writer of Matthew is a better scholar and clearly Jewish, but again uses only the Greek translation which raises questions of how Jewish he really was. Luke uses very fine Greek, but has a poor grasp of Judaism. Bottomline for me is that the while the Gospels have a strong Jewish element, they are clearly influenced by Greco-Roman elements as well. With due respects, I think Bishop Spong has overstated his case.

On Tuesday, I was called to jury duty in a case involving an alleged child molester. During the jury selection process, the judge asked, "Do any of you have personal, moral or religion convictions that would prevent you from judging others?" Coming from a faith tradition that puts a high value on doing one's civic duty and given the horrific nature of the alleged crime (and the church's recent problems with this crime), I at first did not reply. But as I pondered it further and reflected on the many problems with the American criminal justice system (which may be more criminal than just) and how it is based more on vengence and violence rather than reconciliation and healing, when it came time to give our names and personal information, I changed my answer and told the judge that I did indeed have such convictions. I was not selected to sit on the jury. Of course using this for the purpose of avoiding sitting through a long trial would be unethical, but for a person who has heard Jesus' call to peace and nonviolence can one do otherwise? Is it better to refuse to participate in an inherently violent and dehumanizing system and accept the possibility that you may be setting a social predator loose to prey again or to turn a blind eye to the faults of the current system and fulfill one's civic duty? What would Jesus do?

BrotherRog writes: >>Northcott ...argues that Christians should make the >>center of faith not the cross - especially not a cross >>deemed necessary to propitiate divine wrath or restore >>God's honor - but the resurrection, which demonstrates >> God's power over evil, violence, and death. The cross and the resurrection cannot be separated. We can only get to resurrection by willingly joining in the crucifixion. The crucifixion and resurrection are not one time historical events, but exist in the eternal now. By joining with the crucified Jesus we die with to our dualistic, ego based selves which arises whenever we eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. (Something we are constantly doing unfortunately.) We must dare to walk past the two cherubim of duality so that we may eating from the fruit which hangs from the tree of eternal life, the Jesus fruit who eternally gives up its life freely for the love of us. And by eating that fruit, we ourselves become that fruit and can to arise with Christ into an all embracing unity and we dwell in the peace of Eden. Peace and Joy

In addition to the items given by BrotherRog, the proposal would: - Establish a cabinet-level department in the executive branch of the Federal Govern,ment dedicated to peacemaking and the study of conditions that are conductive to both domestic and international peace. - The Department will create and establish a Peace Academy, modeled after the military service academies, which will provide a 4 year concentration in peace education. Gradutes will be required to serve 5 years in public service in programs dedicated to domestic or international nonviolent conflict resolution. -The first day of each year; January 1st will be designated as Peace Day in the United States and all citizens should be encouraged to observe and celebrate the blessings of peace and endeavor to create peace int he coming year. I do not believe that there has ever been such a department before, but the Peace Academy was proposed several decades back. Perhaps this is what BrotherRog was thinking about? You can find and contact your representatives at: http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home/

BrotherRog writes: >>I feel content to believe in resurrection and not reincarnation Is resurrection to be considered only as a literal one time event, or is it a metaphor for new life coming out of death, something that happens many times in one's life. The same of course can apply to reincarnation, since we take on many new roles in life while remaining the same person. And does what occur within one lifetime also occur in other lifetimes, making the the distinction between resurrection and reincarnation mute? And if we we know from within our own lifetime the reality of resurrection and reincarnation, can we apply this same knowledge applicable to future lifetimes? Can we rely on knowledge rather than belief? Eviltroll writes: >>how does my consciousness get inside somebody elses body? Is consciousness inside your body or is your body inside your consciousness? Troll also writes: >>one should make no more assumptions or assume no more >>causes than are absolutely necessary to explain one's observations But can we be aware of all our assumptions or the assumptions of others? Are not the numbers of assumptions and their perceived magnitude dictated by our own preconceptions? Troll concludes: >>to me it's really more about how well you live the life you have >>right now. ... The rest will take care of itself. On that I do agree, but can one's knowledge (not belief) of past lives help one to live life more fully? Gnothi Seauton - Know thyself.

Ok, I know this may be heretical to many, but I have often wondered about reincarnaion and if it may help explain how I came to be in my present situation of being an MTF transsexual. I know that this subject has not been part of Christianity since the third or fourth century. (There is mention in the Nag Hammadi texts and Origen wrote about it.) I also know that the usual explanation for it, as a way to earn salvation, is out of line with the basic view that salvation only comes through Christ. But I still wonder. In my imaginings, I seem to remember six former lives. The first as a woman living during the Ice Ages of Europe, moving north during the summers so the men could hunt the horses and reindeer on the tundra and then retreating south to shelter in the mountain valleys during the winter. This was a free and pleasant life living close to nature. The second life remembered was as the wife of a wealthy merchant in early Egypt. Another pleasant life, but I missed the freedom and so in my next life I chose a life as a woman in a cattle herding tribe in Africa. During this life, I developed an envy for the warrior men and so chose to try it in my next life choosing to be a Germanic warrior in Europe just after the fall of Rome. This was a miserable experience and I died in my first battle. Coming to my senses, I next had a marvelous life in the French court in the 17th century. It was so pleasant that I wanted to repeat it by choosing to be the daughter of a well to do businessman in Europe. Unfortunately, we were Jewish living in the Rhineland after the first world war. With the coming of the Nazis, everything fell apart and I ended up as slave labor in a factory where I traded sexual favors for special favors. On day an especially brutal guard came wanting his pleasure. I climbed up a balcony overlooking the machinery and jumped to my death. To this day, I have a fear of heights, machinery, and no interest in sex. Blaming my own weakness for my end, I chose to try being a man again living in the most powerful nation, the United States. This has proven to be a stupid choice; although, I have learned much from it. While I tried very hard to be a man, it was never who I really am. And while America has many good things, it's culture of hyperindividualism has proven to be an isolating experience. If there are future lives, I will never chose to be male again nor will I chose such a culture. (My apology to any 'patriots' out there.) Let me then conclude by explaining how reincarnation may be acceptable to a Christian. The basic problem as I see it with the orthodox view is that it is based on the premise that salvation = escape from earthly life and that God is absent from the world. This is basic gnosticism that is incompatible with the biblical view that creation is good (Genesis chapter one). If however we see life as a gift, an opportunity to live out our true nature as children of God - children of Love; then a repeated returning to this life would be natural and expected. Salvation then becomes not an escape from life, but an awakening to life in the fullness. The Christ's role is to lead us from a false life in the "world" (i.e. a life of separation, greed and fear) to a true life in the "spirit" (a life of interconnectedness, generosity and love), both of which reflect states of consciousness not physicality. PEACE AND JOY

There is a lot to worry about the "left behind" crowd. They inflame the middle east situation by blindly supporting Israel believing it will lead to Armegidon. They are indifferent to our declining environment; afterall, the world is ending right? They are also very judgemental of people on the margins of society, labelling them "sinners" and doomed anyway. The very people Jesus reached out to are the ones they exclude. My impression of these folks are that they are feeling left out of the modern world. They are suffering from what Alvin Toffler called "Future Shock". Feeling that they have lost control of their lives, they attempt to simplify things down to black in white. The Bible is taken literally, sex roles are stereotyped, foreign relationships is good vs. evil, etc. Being part of the apocalyptic elite, gives them a sense of importance that they can't find in their ordinary life. The challenge for the progressives is to understand the causes of their mindset and work to change those causes. The least effective thing we can do is to label those on the right as the "enemy". It is these causes that are the "enemy" and it against them they we need to mobilize. Peace and Joy O:-)<

>>Pacigoth writes: >>He has weekly phone calls with the Southern Baptists? >>Geeez... Why does he refuse to even consider the >>Christian argument for pacifism? It would make things too complex for him. Like many extreme conservatives, Bush can only deal with things in black and white. From an article in " The Guardian" (Study of Bush's Psyche Touches a Nerve By Julian Borger, Wednesday 13 August 2003.): A study funded by the US government has concluded that conservatism can be explained psychologically as a set of neuroses rooted in "fear and aggression, dogmatism and the intolerance of ambiguity.... The authors also peer into the psyche of President George Bush, who turns out to be a textbook case. The telltale signs are his preference for moral certainty and frequently expressed dislike of nuance." Given the raising tide of fundamentalism, the questions for us progressives are, "What is causing this neurosis?" and "What can we do to turn the tide and get us back on a progressive agenda?"

Ok, since I just joined this discussion group, let me answer the questions: 1) Do you consider yourself to be a progressive Christian? Why or why not? I'm pretty much a progressive everything! Since life is clearly evolving and I have long ago rejected dualism, the ultimate mystery which we conceptualize and call God must also be evolving and so must Christianity. I believe that we are all part of God becoming God. That if God is Love and Love must be lived out to be truly real, then through our acts of loving kindness God becomes truly real. OH, did I mention that I was a heretic? (Heretic meaning "one who choses". To chose one has to decide. To decide one has to think. I think, therefore I am. Ya' gotta problem with that?) 2) Where do you live? If you're under 18, please don't be any more specific than your city and do NOT give us your school or your last name. Its not safe I live in Mesa, Arizona. With the recent death of my last parent, I have moved into a two bedroom apartment with my furry daughter, Yaku, a Siberian Husky. If you're ever in town, drop by. As my Polish custom says, "When there's a guest in the house, God is in the house." 3) What do you do for a living? What do you do outside of your wage-earning job? I am currently unemployed. I spent the last seven years taking care of my parents and doing volunteer work as a facilitator of a social justice ministry at my church. I hope to turn this experience into a career. While I should be spending my computer time looking for work, I generally spend it reading the news at commondreams.org or getting involved in spirituality issues. Addicted to always talking about religion and politics, no wonder I don't get invited to parties It's either that or form a church! 4) How did you find out about these boards? I bookmarked the site a few years back and have been lurking about every so often. I finally decided to sign up. 5) What are you looking for as you post here? Challenging new ideas that "stimulate the little gray cells" as Inspector Peroit would say! 6) What on Earth do you think this icon means? A "ninja" smiley? Maybe it means "Don't tell anyone I said that!" 7) Tell us anything else you want to about yourself First for full disclosure, I am an MTF transsexual. Far from being a "sin", it is a unique spiritual journey with a clear purpose of living out physically what others must due spiritually, to know and become their true self, or as Jesus said, 'If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you.' (Gospel of Thomas 70) The Gospel of Thomas is probably my favorite scripture. I believe it's authentic, but unfortunately not authorized. Although a life-long Roman Catholic, recent attitudes from the Vatican toward GLBT persons make staying "Roman" impossible and so I'm going "Independent". Anyone interested in a study group in Mesa?