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  2. PaulS

    The Purpose of Life

    An elegant article which helps explain why I see so much more to life without feeling the need to believe in a traditional Christian 'God' as determined by the human mind. https://designluck.com/the-purpose-of-life/
  3. PaulS

    The Real Jesus

    After leaving traditional Christianity I always wondered about what Jesus and his real existence was actually like. By real, I mean the extensive part of Jesus' life that we know nothing about - We only have a snapshot of a very, very brief period of his life provided to us in the Gospels and the NT in general, yet traditional Christianity tends to have a pretty certain model of Jesus and some would say that Jesus was the perfect man (human). I always wondered about the details that were never provided and how Jesus may have actually been in real life (as opposed to perhaps only favourable versions of him portrayed by adherents). For example: did Jesus ever lose his cool, as most everybody I know has done at some time or another? as a teenager, was he ever rebellious to his parents as every male I know has done at some point in their youth/adolescents at least? did Jesus ever get drunk? did Jesus ever have a girlfriend in his younger years or was he ever keen on a girl? did Jesus masturbate, as most males do at some point (or regularly) in their lives? Was he a virgin at his death? did he ever swear, get angry, I understand it is speculation, but do others care to speculate what the rest of Jesus may have been like outside of the pretty portrait minimally portrayed?
  4. Except little else in Joel's so called 'prophecy' can actually be linked to Pentecost. Of course many Christians can twist this prophecy to fit their pre-beliefs, but a proper reading of Joel will clearly demonstrate that the things Joel talks about were simply NOT fulfilled at Pentecost. Joel was referring to other things and not this Pentecost later seized upon by some Christians. Some Christians jump to the conclusion that Joel's prophecy was fulfilled because of one, single, similarity between the prophecy and the alleged events in Acts, that is the 'outpouring of the holy spirit' but this is a very narrow interpretation of such prophecy fulfilled. Some elements of Joel's prophecy that were not fulfilled at Pentecost include: There was no outpouring of the holy spirit to 'All Flesh' as Joel requires Sons and daughters weren't prophesying as Joel states young men weren't seeing visions as Joel advises their old men weren't dreaming dreams in line with Joel's prophecy servants and handmaidens weren't prophesying as required by Joel's dream and also the several physical elements of the prophecy - dark sun, blood moon, smoky mist etc etc. Further, the signs that Joel writes about are to be seen 'after the day of the Lord' and not before. A lot more has to be done according to Joel until that 'day of the lord' is reached, and Pentecost simply wouldn't cut it for Joel as having reached that point in time. And it is not a two-step process, although some Christians like to turn it into that to make it fit their purpose. Joel is clear that his prophecy, in full, will occur at a single, particular point in time. Once again this story seems more like a reaching back into the OT by NT writers to link their beliefs to Judaism rather than an accurate fulfilment of a prophecy made about soemthing else hundreds of years earlier. But if it makes you happy...
  5. Yesterday
  6. I questioned it because you seem to box Progressive Christians in to only two choices - either they must believe the world is to be reborn or they must believe in a movement to a higher consciousness/ a higher state of being (event though you question what those terms actually mean). I'm just suggesting the 3rd choice - you are already fully human - just do the stuff that is better for humankind moreso than the stuff that is not as good for humankind. Or don't. The consequences speak for themselves.
  7. No other possible explanation for myths such as these?
  8. Better not to believe in curses against all of humankind resulting from some primitive myth, in my opinion.
  9. Not at all, but if that is how you view your life with the beliefs that you currently hold, then I can understand why you need to hold onto your myths, 'prophecies' and other God stories to help give your life purpose.
  10. I've always like the Babel story but it is a mythological story: powerful ninth less.
  11. Well, first believe that God Is, that God enables man to be human (deification) and that Life (God) once given, is not lost. Christianity, since the days of Jesus, has the piece about "getting along and being the best (understood as likeness of God/Love) but asserts that Life has meaning and our meaning is part and parcel of the One. Different strokes.
  12. Well Burl, I respect you but I simply don't see God placing a curse at Babel. Not so much individual souls but the death and resurrection seems to have reconciled the disciples and Pentecost was seen as the outreach to others. Never have read that Pentecost was the central focus. Finally, (for me) there was/is no need for a miraculous 'pouring out of Spirit' since that Spirit was always with man and God has eternally dwelt in us all.
  13. So the purpose of life is remaining in our plane seats without fighting over the shared armrest without a thought as to where we are going or why? Barf bag, please.
  14. It is difficult to see Pentecost as anything less than than the removal of the curse God placed on mankind at Babel. Trying to discern individual souls touched by Christ is overreading. Better to see the universal outpouring of spirit upon all flesh as prophesied by Joel 2:28. Pentecost is the central focus of Christianity. Not the nativity, the passion or the resurrection. Not Jesus' brief spell as a teacher. Pentecost and the willingness of God to dwell within every individual is the overarching story.
  15. Progressive Christians who believe what precisely? What about a 3rd choice - neither a new world with people reborn, or a movement to higher consciousness (whatever that means) and any 'necessity' to transcend this life/world, but rather, simply an understanding about trying to get along and be the best of what we are.
  16. This raises an interesting point: for progressive Christians who believe, is there still a position that this world will be made new, with people reborn (resurrected) to it or does it make more sense to envision a movement to a higher consciousness, a higher state of being (whatever these terms might mean) that, of necessity transcends this life/world?
  17. Any 'modern' confusion predated the moderns. As for Pentecost, it depends how one understands it. However, given Luke's timing of Pentecost, does that mean the earliest disciples were not reconciled to God until that time?
  18. I agree that the 'modern' confusion is incorrect, but it does appear that the ancient view (in Jesus' day and shortly thereafter) was that the arrival of God's Kingdom was imminent and was an end times scenario of sorts as Rome would be overthrown and Israel, with God at its head, would rise above all). But of course, that didn't happen.
  19. The critical event triggered by Jesus' life, death, resurrection and session was Pentecost and the reconciliation of God and mankind. This modern confusion of 'the kingdom of God' with an end times scenario is incorrect.
  20. romansh

    Favorite fruits and vegetables

    Must be true … in that it is contradictory to the fattened calf and prodigal son story. I am sure the will be some apologist along in a minute or two to explain the contradiction and how we are interpreting these incorrectly.
  21. Seemingly, Jesus thought the endtime was imminent, as did the Baptist - not sure off hand about all the prophets. But it continued to the early disciples and, as you mention, Paul. Actually one biblical scholar I'm reading believes that Jesus announced the 'time' when he entered Jerusalem for the last time and this led directly to his crucifixion since it ignited the people and put the Romans and priest on edge - always worried about insurrection (pointing out that he was not crucified with two robbers but insurrectionists (correct translation). In addition, she believes that Jesus and his beliefs in the endgame actually carried through his crucifixion and his 'resurrection' was interpreted as the first fruits of the resurrection of the dead that would mark the endtime. Later Christians, realizing that time, as we know it, did not end (especially Luke) begin to deal with the delay and split the 'coming of the messiah' into two events: the life, death, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus and the '2nd coming' of this messiah who will return to establish God's Kingdom. Would have to check when this future kingdom became heaven but it doesn't seem to have been the early Christians (1st C). But there were definitely people who didn't make the grade, although even early Christianity had theologians who thought that salvation was universal and it seems some progressives today agree.
  22. There are those that believe quite the opposite. From the Jesus Sayings
  23. thormas

    Favorite fruits and vegetables

    That's odd because the Secret Greek Gnostic writings of Veganarius indicate that veganism was the established practice of the pagans, or at least those in the know. Thus Jesu' Narrow Way would have been at home and easily accepted in the pagan world. This excludes the aristocratic Romans who were notorious for eating meat thus the persecutions of the Christians over their choice of food.
  24. PaulS

    Favorite fruits and vegetables

    I have it on good authority that there is a work directly written by Jesus titled "The Narrow Way Is Through The Vege Garden". Perhaps, like much of the Jesus message, later authors attributed meat eating stories to Jesus in order to make him more attractive to outsiders!
  25. The 'earliest' Christian writers (e.g. Paul and those pseudepigraphic authors who pretended to be Paul) seemed to think the Kingdom was imminent and was going to happen in their lifetimes. That does seem to be in line with Jesus and the OT messiah talk (to a degree). Later 'early' Christians then seemed to turn the 'good news' into this other future 'kingdom' that relied upon either faith or works (depending on which view you take of elements of the NT) and definitely excluded people who didn't make the grade.
  26. I think those sort of words may have been placed on Jesus' lips by some NT writers. I think it's pretty convincing that Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet who believed the coming of the Kingdom was imminent and that the evil powers (Rome) would be overthrown 'in this generation'. When Jesus got executed and 'this generation' didn't see the coming of the Kingdom, Christians began to 'interpret' Jesus differently and make up new stories about the Kingdom.
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