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  2. Tim Keller tweets on evolution

    Seeds, or a fertilzed ovum, do not evolve. They grow predictably and with almost perfect consistency. Cells multiply and differentiate into incredibly complex organisms. The final development is predetermined with only minor variations. Evolution is the result of interaction of the developing organism with the environment. It is a completely different process. The maxim "Ontology recapitulates philogeny" is a decent rule of thumb. The evolutionary development of a species generally does resemble the development of the organism, but evolution is only a supporting player.
  3. Yesterday
  4. Tim Keller tweets on evolution

    You will have to flesh out this thought Burl. And how this might lead to being the first mover?
  5. Tim Keller tweets on evolution

    Just a question or, perhaps, an observation: how can there be a 'predefined future potential' if a species adapts and develops (only) in response to its environment, i.e. by interacting with/responding to developments within the rest of creation? If that environment changes, then what a species interacts with changes and, therefore, how that species adapts and develops will (might) change. Its future potential, or one of its future potentials, is no longer possible (or perhaps even desirable) given the 'changed' present. Then again it's genetic predefinition might not enable it to adapt and thus extinction, while others have a greater genetic predisposition to adapt and survive. Now I have a headache and will go rest :+}
  6. Tim Keller tweets on evolution

    Evolution may not have a direction but development does. I don't think one can discuss evolution on this grand scale without also considering development. Development pulls from a genetically predefined future potential, and evolution is the result of interactions with development and the rest of creation. The two processes are inextricably linked, but rarely discussed together.
  7. Tim Keller tweets on evolution

    Oh I thought Timothy's point was a good comment. Never mind. Regarding your interesting question ... evolution per se does not have direction. Evolution in a nutshell: If we have a system that replicates But the replication is not completely accurate And if there are differential rates of successful replication because of the environment Then we must have evolution. Of course the replicates themselves are also part of the environment. We can make certain predictions based on this, but evolution itself does not have a direction. As to evolving towards God ... The first mover ... a bit late for that.
  8. Tim Keller tweets on evolution

    From the Christian perspective, or perhaps from my Christian perspective, we are not evolving towards God for that would suggest natural (perhaps inevitable?) process. Rather I believe that we can actualize our 'best//true' self or we move toward deification (only) if we incarnate God/Love. In the Christian perspective, the 'evolution of man' is first an action of God.
  9. Tim Keller tweets on evolution

    The interesting question is whether humanity is evolving towards God. It is worth consideration.
  10. Last week
  11. Tim Keller tweets on evolution

    Plus note the "merely" ... a rhetorical device designed to activate an emotional response. From a materialist point of view we are the product of the universe unfolding of which evolution is a description (a very accurate one and one that is being refined all the time) of a part of that unfolding.
  12. Tim Keller tweets on evolution

    Good comments. No not good comments at all. 1) evolution does not care about oppression. 2) If the weak out-reproduce the strong, the weak are winning from an evolutionary point of view. 3) If Timothy or anyone else can't think of reasons for not oppressing the weak, the education system in that segment of the population needs a revisit.
  13. https://mobile.twitter.com/timkellernyc/status/975734637761835008?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Frelevantmagazine.com%2Fgod%2Ftim-keller-posted-interesting-thoughts-evolution%2F&tfw_creator=relevant&tfw_site=relevan Good comments.
  14. Welcome back Tom, even if just for a visit. Labels are an interesting thing - we seem to like to apply them to help us organise things nice and neatly, yet most of the time these labels get blurred, crossover, or update to more fitting ones. Whatever the case, you are you, whether you wear a label or not. Sometimes labels do help communicate our position/beliefs/opinions, and sometimes they confuse. To me 'God' seems to be the ultimate label of confusion and one that is always held tightly by small likeminded groups who want to be 'right'. I probably wear bits and pieces of dozens of labels, none of which probably fit precisely with somebody else's opinion of what that label should mean. Who cares. Whatever it is you are struggling with, just keep breathing and smile. You'll come out the other side eventually. Enjoy the love you have and share with your friends. That is all that matters. Take care. Paul
  15. This Week's Lectionary

    March 18, 2018 John 12:20-40 The Message (MSG) A Grain of Wheat Must Die 20-21 There were some Greeks in town who had come up to worship at the Feast. They approached Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee: “Sir, we want to see Jesus. Can you help us?” 22-23 Philip went and told Andrew. Andrew and Philip together told Jesus. Jesus answered, “Time’s up. The time has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24-25 “Listen carefully: Unless a grain of wheat is buried in the ground, dead to the world, it is never any more than a grain of wheat. But if it is buried, it sprouts and reproduces itself many times over. In the same way, anyone who holds on to life just as it is destroys that life. But if you let it go, reckless in your love, you’ll have it forever, real and eternal. 26 “If any of you wants to serve me, then follow me. Then you’ll be where I am, ready to serve at a moment’s notice. The Father will honor and reward anyone who serves me. 27-28 “Right now I am storm-tossed. And what am I going to say? ‘Father, get me out of this’? No, this is why I came in the first place. I’ll say, ‘Father, put your glory on display.’” A voice came out of the sky: “I have glorified it, and I’ll glorify it again.” 29 The listening crowd said, “Thunder!” Others said, “An angel spoke to him!” 30-33 Jesus said, “The voice didn’t come for me but for you. At this moment the world is in crisis. Now Satan, the ruler of this world, will be thrown out. And I, as I am lifted up from the earth, will attract everyone to me and gather them around me.” He put it this way to show how he was going to be put to death. 34 Voices from the crowd answered, “We heard from God’s Law that the Messiah lasts forever. How can it be necessary, as you put it, that the Son of Man ‘be lifted up’? Who is this ‘Son of Man’?” 35-36 Jesus said, “For a brief time still, the light is among you. Walk by the light you have so darkness doesn’t destroy you. If you walk in darkness, you don’t know where you’re going. As you have the light, believe in the light. Then the light will be within you, and shining through your lives. You’ll be children of light.” Their Eyes Are Blinded 36-40 Jesus said all this, and then went into hiding. All these God-signs he had given them and they still didn’t get it, still wouldn’t trust him. This proved that the prophet Isaiah was right: God, who believed what we preached? Who recognized God’s arm, outstretched and ready to act? First they wouldn’t believe, then they couldn’t—again, just as Isaiah said: Their eyes are blinded, their hearts are hardened, So that they wouldn’t see with their eyes and perceive with their hearts, And turn to me, God, so I could heal them.
  16. Presidential Poll

    Former CIA Director John Brennan responding to Trump's tweet on McCabe's dismissal Wow. Wow indeed.
  17. Presidential Poll

    Perhaps Burl ... but perhaps you don't have the critical evaluation of biblical education that I have. And when it comes to God ... my education, evaluation and opinion are at least as equally valid as yours.
  18. Presidential Poll

    I'll just play a bit longer as I hate to do politics on such a site. Moses could be said to have been weak - but then again. Peter also had his strengths and weaknesses - as did David. But with Trump one suspects that God has left, if not the building, at least this vessel: the Light is off and no One is home. Trump's biblical education was definitely lacking when he cited his favorite passage: 'Two Cor.' Then again, hard to have any real education if you never ........read. As for praying, perhaps at some obviously public, religious events but he is/was a 'reality' star. As for public praise - he seems to have a problem understanding the 2nd part of the two great commandments and it will probably be a highlight reel upon meeting God at the pearly gates when the Lord begins to say: "when I was a Mexican, when I was a woman, when I was your daughter, when I was a faithful public servant working for the FBI............." and the Donald says, "when Lord, when did I bully you, when did I grope you........when did I yell to lock you up.....when, when, when? And, by the way Lord, Two Corinthians is my favorite." Trump can have no gods before him since he thinks he walks on water :+} Moses had abilities, Peter had game, David had skills ..............Trump not so much. However there is noting to worry about: Trump would never let anyone doubt that his power and image is anything less than god's and we know from experience that if God ever tried to send a messenger to enlighten the president, Donald would simply dismiss that 'fake' messenger or a 'fake' god and tell us all about it when he tweets on the can in the early morning hours...........Typical day in the life!
  19. Presidential Poll

    None The Sacred would like to part his hair and allow us to escape to freedom.
  20. Presidential Poll

    Your lack of biblical education is showing. Divine vessels chosen by God are typically weak and flawed. The Israelites were the weakest tribe in the region, and prone to paganism. David was a licentious, murderous adulterer and libertine. Jonah was a complete coward. Trump prays and publicly praises God. The commonality in those chosen by God seems to be their weakness and lack of innate ability, so that the power of God is not confused with the individual.
  21. Presidential Poll

    Exactly. So my question would be what Progressive Christian values does Trump demonstrate? The only Divine Vessel behaviours I can discern from Trump is that the Sacred would like to see more Democrats in Congress and the Senate.
  22. Welcome Tom and don't worry about labels. But social justice and friends you love, including among those of us who are marginalized - not bad at all. Stick around start a conversation or join in on one that might be of interest. Sometimes we burn ourselves out after an extended back and forth but eventually we get back to it. Thormas
  23. Presidential Poll

    I must admit there is some amusement in in the trump gong show. Stormy Daniels circus will be interesting. It will be to see how many women will come out of the woodwork and take a tilt at their non-disclosure agreements. Having said that a person's sexual affairs is not really relevant to their capability as a leader. Being able to pick and keep a good team around the office would be a sign of effective leadership. Not lying to your neighbour's prime minister would also be a sign of effective leadership. Not bullying your trade partners is also effective leadership. Now some might think this is shaking things up. Well it sounds like HR McMaster is the next Casualty of Office. Looking in from the outside ... all I can see is a shambles of a divine vessel.
  24. Hi Tom I am not sure what you are quite after here. I don't think the US as a whole has a good grasp on what socialism is. On the other hand Socialism (note the upper case S) may have some dogmas associated with it. Wither way I wish you the best ... but I am far from sure the benefit of my wishes. rom
  25. Presidential Poll

    He's just at war with his everybody else...........:=} No war with Russia? Except for the cyber attack and the interference in an American election- but otherwise............!
  26. Presidential Poll

    Blessed are the peacemakers. No war with Russia. North Korea's disarmament will earn Trump a Nobel. The multiple wars in the mideast no longer include the US. I have never seen a first term president have such astounding success.
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